DeCav, Check This Out

[cavaliereagle]

https://wach.com/news/nation-world/prou ... ack-church

WASHINGTON (WJLA) — Authorities with the Metropolitan Police Department have confirmed that a self-proclaimed 'Proud Boys' leader has been arrested and charged with destruction of property.

D.C. police say they had been looking for a person of interest after a Black Lives Matter flag was removed from D.C.'s oldest Black church and burned on Dec. 12 during pro-Trump demonstrations.

RELATED: Police release photos, ask for help identifying people at D.C. demonstrations

According to police, 36-year-old Henry "Enrique" Tarrio of Miami, Florida, was arrested on a D.C. Superior Court arrest warrant after entering the District on Monday.

Imagine the folks that will complain about this. He wasn't arrested for burning a flag. He was arrested for destroying someone else's property. I feel like folks will complain about being able to burn the American flag, but not the BLM flag. Personally, I hope I never run across anyone improperly burning the American Flag. Even if they purchased it. I don't know what my reaction may be. There are some things that just aren't acceptable, regardless of what the law says. I'd be shocked if any combat veteran would feel differently.

Also, check out the guys name. I thought this was supposed to be a white supremacist group.

[DeCav]

I was wondering where this was. Derp!

Obviously the bigger picture about how this guy was prevented from attending the attempted coup seems to overshadow the actual arrest chargers.

As I mentioned in the other thread they charged him with possession of illegal high capacity magazines.

As far as what was illegally taken?

Seems super important to me not to politicize it.

He stole private property and then destroyed it. What he took and what he burned shouldn’t even be on the table.

I could ask you if you would press charges if someone removed an American flag from your private property and burned it but that would be a cheap angle for me to take and would just open up a can of worms about a BLM flag vs. the Stars and Stripes.

Consider instead a person takes a pair of pants from a hypothetical clothes line on your property and burns them.

Ultimately? Would be interesting in court if the prosecution never identifies what was taken but only that it was taken from private property and burned. That would be a novel approach.

[cavaliereagle]

I was wondering where this was. Derp!

Obviously the bigger picture about how this guy was prevented from attending the attempted coup seems to overshadow the actual arrest chargers.
I don't understand how they can tell him to stay out of DC. His crime wasn't against DC. I could see them saying stay off that church's property.

As I mentioned in the other thread they charged him with possession of illegal high capacity magazines.
Correct. Although, I don't agree with the ban on high capacity magazines. I know many people that have high capacity magazines. They've never committed a crime, or have any intention of doing so. They simply enjoy shooting and those magazines take less reload time. Plus, they enjoy trying to outdo each other. Just as guys with hot rods do. Or, guys that like loud music. We all have things that are unnecessary. So, who am I to decide what someone else can or can't have?

As far as what was illegally taken?

Seems super important to me not to politicize it.
Agreed!

He stole private property and then destroyed it. What he took and what he burned shouldn’t even be on the table.
I think he should be charged with stealing and destroying someone else's property.

I could ask you if you would press charges if someone removed an American flag from your private property and burned it but that would be a cheap angle for me to take and would just open up a can of worms about a BLM flag vs. the Stars and Stripes.
Anything taken from anyone's property is wrong. I have no problem with the BLM flag meaning as much to others as the American flag means to me. Their choice. I stopped watching Nascar over the Rebel flag incident. I have never owned a Rebel flag. I have no ties to it. I don't agree with everything it stood for. I would have also stopped watching if they said a BLM flag couldn't be there. What you do with your personal property is your choice. My problem would be if you tried to put it on something of mine.

Consider instead a person takes a pair of pants from a hypothetical clothes line on your property and burns them.
Just as wrong!

Ultimately? Would be interesting in court if the prosecution never identifies what was taken but only that it was taken from private property and burned. That would be a novel approach.
I think i've made it clear that, to me, it's not important what was taken.

[DeCav]

I was wondering where this was. Derp!

Obviously the bigger picture about how this guy was prevented from attending the attempted coup seems to overshadow the actual arrest chargers.
I don't understand how they can tell him to stay out of DC. His crime wasn't against DC. I could see them saying stay off that church's property.

As I mentioned in the other thread they charged him with possession of illegal high capacity magazines.
Correct. Although, I don't agree with the ban on high capacity magazines. I know many people that have high capacity magazines. They've never committed a crime, or have any intention of doing so. They simply enjoy shooting and those magazines take less reload time. Plus, they enjoy trying to outdo each other. Just as guys with hot rods do. Or, guys that like loud music. We all have things that are unnecessary. So, who am I to decide what someone else can or can't have?

As far as what was illegally taken?

Seems super important to me not to politicize it.
Agreed!

He stole private property and then destroyed it. What he took and what he burned shouldn’t even be on the table.
I think he should be charged with stealing and destroying someone else's property.

I could ask you if you would press charges if someone removed an American flag from your private property and burned it but that would be a cheap angle for me to take and would just open up a can of worms about a BLM flag vs. the Stars and Stripes.
Anything taken from anyone's property is wrong. I have no problem with the BLM flag meaning as much to others as the American flag means to me. Their choice. I stopped watching Nascar over the Rebel flag incident. I have never owned a Rebel flag. I have no ties to it. I don't agree with everything it stood for. I would have also stopped watching if they said a BLM flag couldn't be there. What you do with your personal property is your choice. My problem would be if you tried to put it on something of mine.

Consider instead a person takes a pair of pants from a hypothetical clothes line on your property and burns them.
Just as wrong!

Ultimately? Would be interesting in court if the prosecution never identifies what was taken but only that it was taken from private property and burned. That would be a novel approach.
I think i've made it clear that, to me, it's not important what was taken.

Yeah, I think we're in agreement. What was on the flag or the fact that it was even a flag isn't the issue. I like the fabled young childs suggestion for a new pledge of allegiance. "I Pledge alliegance, to the people of the United States Of America."

[DeCav]

You guys know me. In a decade I've never any views of gun control but the more I dive into contemporary theories of the gun control as with all politicaly debates, I disagree with Miagi's wisdown about choosing one side of the road or the other. Politics in this this country will evolve to abandon the fringes of the right and left as self defeating indeologies.

I"l just say this. some crazies in the america want to ban guns altogether. others want to see bazookas unregulated. THe answer is somewher in between.

The very reasonalbe law that ou can cary in DC as long as your gun is regisetered in DC preveneted enough peole from not carrying such that there wasn't a bigger blood bath. This is a compromise. Remember WKRP QUOTE. "You always been an all or nothing kind of guy and since you can't have it all you get nothing.

DC gun laws saved lives. I'm agressively centrist. the answer is in the middle that's what a bell curve describes.

[DeCav]

Major props to CavEagle! A good excersise in civil discourse. I apologize sincerely for letting my emotions get away with me and for rambling on, many times a bit off subject. Please keep in mind that because the rest are spectatating and using your arguments as a proxy for their own I feel it puts undue stress on you. There have been few times I went too far and got to pointed or judgemental and I regreat that and wich I could throtttle back and pull out of you for some of the things I've said. Often times I felt as thought I was speaking beyond you to the silent majority on the board that either don't want to inflame things, make enemies, see thigns out of control, or get things shut down. Can't objectively grade my self and if I could I'd give myself a failing grade probably. But any kind of discourse without personal attacks it what I believe our forefathers meant for us to engagne it.

As far as one poster's assertion that I was self-centered? I'm still tryin to work out what exactly is so tangibly upsetting that people would justify loss of life and vandalism of property to aire their grievances. Accusations that I'm self centered fall on deaf ears given may selfless projects I've undertaked in the last ten years.

Over the next few days, I'll show images and videos of countries where the citizens aren't allowed to behave like teens with over bearing parents. I hear some many charges hurled at people who "hate america" the scenes in DC on the 6th are the archetypal examples of spoiled Americans who hate this country and want to see it burned to the ground so they can rule the ashes. Warning some are the images and stories are difficult to see.
And anyone show wasn's to come up and call me arrogant or self centered will be issued a call to put your money where you mouth it.

[cavaliereagle]

Major props to CavEagle! A good excersise in civil discourse. I apologize sincerely for letting my emotions get away with me and for rambling on, many times a bit off subject. Please keep in mind that because the rest are spectatating and using your arguments as a proxy for their own I feel it puts undue stress on you. There have been few times I went too far and got to pointed or judgemental and I regreat that and wich I could throtttle back and pull out of you for some of the things I've said. Often times I felt as thought I was speaking beyond you to the silent majority on the board that either don't want to inflame things, make enemies, see thigns out of control, or get things shut down. Can't objectively grade my self and if I could I'd give myself a failing grade probably. But any kind of discourse without personal attacks it what I believe our forefathers meant for us to engagne it.

As far as one poster's assertion that I was self-centered? I'm still tryin to work out what exactly is so tangibly upsetting that people would justify loss of life and vandalism of property to aire their grievances. Accusations that I'm self centered fall on deaf ears given may selfless projects I've undertaked in the last ten years.

Over the next few days, I'll show images and videos of countries where the citizens aren't allowed to behave like teens with over bearing parents. I hear some many charges hurled at people who "hate america" the scenes in DC on the 6th are the archetypal examples of spoiled Americans who hate this country and want to see it burned to the ground so they can rule the ashes. Warning some are the images and stories are difficult to see.
And anyone show wasn's to come up and call me arrogant or self centered will be issued a call to put your money where you mouth it.

Brother, I have truly enjoyed our discussions. I also appreciate the moderators allowing this conversation. I appreciate the owner of the sight allowing it as well. Rambling? Yes, you do sometimes ramble a little. However, it has enlightened me to some things I didn't know about. I'm enjoying the push you're giving me. The push to seek an educated answer rather than the talking points of others. DeCav, you know of my injuries from the military. The head injury seems to be affecting my thoughts much more as I get older. They are getting ready to test me for early onset dementia. I really don't think that's it. I just think everything is catching up with me. I'm not seeking sympathy. I'm seeking exactly what you're giving me. Forcing me to think! I remember the first time I was shot overseas. When my father went to see me, he said if I wanted sympathy, to look in the dictionary between syphilis and shit. My father was a stern man, but he instilled a fighting spirit that has helped me through some tough times. He's been gone since '14. I could really use his challenges now. I'm fortunate to still have my dad that adopted me. He's an old softy though. I hope we can continue these discussions. They are helping me! Here I go with those run on paragraphs. Please brother, continue the push!!!

[DeCav]

Thanks man. It means a lot. And of course I want some push back as well. The things I'm learning this year are truly blowing my mind and only go to show me how much I truly don't know.

Mr. Miagi said if you walk on the left side of the road you're fine and if you walk on the right side of the road you're fine but if you walk in the middle you'll get run over. With respect to learning something full tilt or not at all I agree with that analogy but when it comes to politics and the social landscape, I have to say that I've learned that I've always been just right of center and now I feel as though I can say with full conviction that I'm aggressively centrist.

It all makes sense in my head but getting it on paper is always a challenge. I've cited a lot of psychology as it relates to politics and it really resonates with me. What I'm slowly coming to believe (notice I don't claim to "know" anything...only believe) is that society will break down all the way to the left and it will break down all the way to the right. Learning about the human brain and the functions that each hemisphere carry out for us to be able to function has seeded my own brain for a lot of thought on the subject of our politics in America. There seems an assymetrical push in this country for the last four years to absolutely abolish liberal politics 100%.

I personally have very little doubt that had the siege on the Capitol succeeded in installing Trump back in as president that these mobs would have seen no reason at all to stop there. Why not remove through acts of coercion and in some cases, violence every Democrat from Congress and install only the candidates that the mob wanted in Washington. I'm truly dumbfounded at accusations that a Clinton presidency would have meant the end of American democracy when four years of Trump ended in an actual attempt at a coup.

You've never seen me opine about gun control or the 2nd amendment because I really don't feel one way or the other about it. Where we're currently at seems like a happy medium to me. Some in this country would have all firearms outlawed forever while there are others on the other side who'd gladly welcome the legalization of rocket launchers and grenades. And both extreme sides of the argument seem to loathe the idea of a compromise. I'll never understand why some people insist on having all or nothing.

Consider this.....

In Washington DC, concealed carry is legal with a DC issued license.

What is prohibited obviously is transporting your gun to DC even if it's registered in your state. Oddly, many who stormed our Capitol building were law-abiding enough mostly to leave behind their guns but not so much so that they were deterred from unlawfully entering the Capitol building taking shits on the floor, smearing it on the walls, and in one case beating a Capitol police officer to death with a fire extinguisher.

Assault rifles are prohibited DC.

Ok, this seems like a compromise. No one's 2nd amendment seems to be denied here. If you live in DC, you can own a firearm and even move about with it as long as it's concealed. And in whatever state you live you are also allowed to own a firearm. The compromise in DC (thank GOD) was that you can't bring your gun to DC unless you're going to somehow also register it there.

What's the upshot of that law?

Well imagine every one of those rioters also armed not only with guns but with assault rifles with the largest capacity magazines available. We're calling balls and strikes here. We all know anyone who stormed that building on Jan 6th not only own guns that they decided to keep back home but would have gladly brought them and brandished them had the law permitted. And once things got ginned up after people started trying to enter the building, had everyone of those people had loaded firearms, a lot more people would have died.

So again, I don't ever weigh in on gun control because it seems our laws are more or less where they need to be in my opinion. I'm hard pressed to think of a better example than Jan 6th of a gun law being exactly what was needed to prevent carnage without stepping on the 2nd amendment.

And for anyone who thinks we need guns so we can overthrow our government?

Anyone who thinks you can overthrow America is bringing an AR-15 to a drone fight. There is going to be a serious cleaning of house and revetting of our police force and armed forces. Unfortunately, for a lot of law abiding, non-treasonous Trump voters, that actions of a few on Jan 6th are gonna make "MAGA" whether it's fair or not, be seen by some as the mark of the Devil when it comes to a propensity for violent sedition. Officials are already coming to terms with the fact that the 6th was more of an inside job than many would have ever dreamed.

I'm not saying that. Don't shoot the messenger.

I've seen a few Trump supporters piss on the fire and break camp after Jan 6th. Many Americans have been saying it was headed that way before that day came. Like myself who bumped into the back of a car at a stop light while intoxicated 2 years ago, yeah awesome...i dodged a bullet and learned my lesson but not without playing Russian roulette first.

Had fewer voters showed up for Biden? Had Trump won second term? A lot of disillusioned Trump supporters would have been full steam ahead for whatever another 4 years would have held. And this is a man who demanded a third term because his first one didn't count in his estimation.

Oh CavEagle, did I ever mention I know how to make abortions all but go away? Without mucking about with Supreme Court Justices.

[cavaliereagle]

Thanks man. It means a lot. And of course I want some push back as well. The things I'm learning this year are truly blowing my mind and only go to show me how much I truly don't know.

Mr. Miagi said if you walk on the left side of the road you're fine and if you walk on the right side of the road you're fine but if you walk in the middle you'll get run over. With respect to learning something full tilt or not at all I agree with that analogy but when it comes to politics and the social landscape, I have to say that I've learned that I've always been just right of center and now I feel as though I can say with full conviction that I'm aggressively centrist.

It all makes sense in my head but getting it on paper is always a challenge. I've cited a lot of psychology as it relates to politics and it really resonates with me. What I'm slowly coming to believe (notice I don't claim to "know" anything...only believe) is that society will break down all the way to the left and it will break down all the way to the right. Learning about the human brain and the functions that each hemisphere carry out for us to be able to function has seeded my own brain for a lot of thought on the subject of our politics in America. There seems an assymetrical push in this country for the last four years to absolutely abolish liberal politics 100%.

I believe abolishing the politics of the "other" side has gone on more than 4 years. Although, it has reached a fever pitch. Conservative policies have been under attack for decades though. Look at abortion, prayer in schools, 10 Commandment removal, same sex marriage, etc.

I personally have very little doubt that had the siege on the Capitol succeeded in installing Trump back in as president that these mobs would have seen no reason at all to stop there. Why not remove through acts of coercion and in some cases, violence every Democrat from Congress and install only the candidates that the mob wanted in Washington. I'm truly dumbfounded at accusations that a Clinton presidency would have meant the end of American democracy when four years of Trump ended in an actual attempt at a coup.

I still can't believe that was allowed! Terrorists are watching.

You've never seen me opine about gun control or the 2nd amendment because I really don't feel one way or the other about it. Where we're currently at seems like a happy medium to me. Some in this country would have all firearms outlawed forever while there are others on the other side who'd gladly welcome the legalization of rocket launchers and grenades. And both extreme sides of the argument seem to loathe the idea of a compromise. I'll never understand why some people insist on having all or nothing.

Actually, you can legally own rocket launchers, grenades, bazookas, tanks, fighter jets, assault rifles, etc...You've just got to meet all the requirements.

Consider this.....

In Washington DC, concealed carry is legal with a DC issued license.

What is prohibited obviously is transporting your gun to DC even if it's registered in your state. Oddly, many who stormed our Capitol building were law-abiding enough mostly to leave behind their guns but not so much so that they were deterred from unlawfully entering the Capitol building taking shits on the floor, smearing it on the walls, and in one case beating a Capitol police officer to death with a fire extinguisher.

Assault rifles are prohibited DC.

Ok, this seems like a compromise. No one's 2nd amendment seems to be denied here. If you live in DC, you can own a firearm and even move about with it as long as it's concealed. And in whatever state you live you are also allowed to own a firearm. The compromise in DC (thank GOD) was that you can't bring your gun to DC unless you're going to somehow also register it there.

What's the upshot of that law?

Well imagine every one of those rioters also armed not only with guns but with assault rifles with the largest capacity magazines available. We're calling balls and strikes here. We all know anyone who stormed that building on Jan 6th not only own guns that they decided to keep back home but would have gladly brought them and brandished them had the law permitted. And once things got ginned up after people started trying to enter the building, had everyone of those people had loaded firearms, a lot more people would have died.

So again, I don't ever weigh in on gun control because it seems our laws are more or less where they need to be in my opinion. I'm hard pressed to think of a better example than Jan 6th of a gun law being exactly what was needed to prevent carnage without stepping on the 2nd amendment.

I'm satisfied with our gun laws. I do believe we need to continue to fight restrictions though. The old give them an inch reason.

And for anyone who thinks we need guns so we can overthrow our government?

Anyone who thinks you can overthrow America is bringing an AR-15 to a drone fight. There is going to be a serious cleaning of house and revetting of our police force and armed forces. Unfortunately, for a lot of law abiding, non-treasonous Trump voters, that actions of a few on Jan 6th are gonna make "MAGA" whether it's fair or not, be seen by some as the mark of the Devil when it comes to a propensity for violent sedition. Officials are already coming to terms with the fact that the 6th was more of an inside job than many would have ever dreamed.

Not overthrowing the government, but protecting us from it. The Constitution says what it says. However, we are in agreement on our gun laws. Remember, those guns would have also been used to stop the coup. The fight wouldn't necessarily be against the government, but rather a faction. On the 6th, both sides of the fight was the government.

I'm not saying that. Don't shoot the messenger.

I've seen a few Trump supporters piss on the fire and break camp after Jan 6th. Many Americans have been saying it was headed that way before that day came. Like myself who bumped into the back of a car at a stop light while intoxicated 2 years ago, yeah awesome...i dodged a bullet and learned my lesson but not without playing Russian roulette first.

Had fewer voters showed up for Biden? Had Trump won second term? A lot of disillusioned Trump supporters would have been full steam ahead for whatever another 4 years would have held. And this is a man who demanded a third term because his first one didn't count in his estimation.

I'm hoping he doesn't destroy any chance Pence may have down the road.

Oh CavEagle, did I ever mention I know how to make abortions all but go away? Without mucking about with Supreme Court Justices.

Let's tackle that subject next.

[DeCav]

Before we talk about abortions, I did want to point out that assuming that the inauguration goes through as planned, or at least goes through, I'll need you and others pushing back on Biden's administration as it goes forward. I plan to be much more plugged into politics through the coming administration than I was through the ones leading up to Trump's term.

With Trump, he was such a bullhorn that you didn't need to have your ear to the tracks to hear the rumbles. I suspect Biden's first term is going to be played closer to the vest and therefore more subtle for me to criticize. I suspect character won't be in question as much as policy and I'm not much of a policy wonk so let me get out in front of that and warn that I'm probably gonna miss some of the finer points of a Biden administration.

Looking up north to what is going on in Canada, I think America's main concern will be laws about compelled speech and more identity politics. Biden of course won't be able to unite our country again. Even if he could, which he can't, the effort would be futile. The only way we can heal is on a man to man basis. Looking for civilian leaders 1,000 miles away from Joe Plumber and John Q (no pun intendend) to help them get along is a non-starter. Healing has to be a grass roots thing and our community here on this board I feel will be a great opportunity to show that.

I'm so ready to get the last 5 years behind me.

I'll type up something tomorrow on abortion. It sounds crazy af, but I can say I've personally outlined my idea to about a dozen men and women, strangers and friends who immediately signed onto the idea. One cute little FB preacher started out in a chat cussing me out until she heard my plan to which she responded, "I'm entirely under your command." To which I responded, "I'm married, never tell me that!"

Well, Trump is officially, categorically, and undeniably the greatest President Of The United States Of America that there has ever been who has also been impeached two times.

Peace out!